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[Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

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[Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby Fax » Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:34 am

Succubus (CR 7)
Usually CE Medium Outsider (Extraplanar)
Class None

Pre-combat
Init: +13; Senses: Awareness +10; Darkvision 60'
Languages: Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Infernal; telepathy 100', tongues

Defense
AC 21; touch 12; flat-footed 17
(+2 Dex, +3 Hero, +6 natural)

HP 39 (6d8+12 HD); DR 10/cold iron
GD 12
Immune Poison; Resist Acid 1, Cold 1, Electricity 1, Fire 1, Mind-Affecting (+3)
Fort +10 Ref +8 Will +10
SR 18 HV 3
SQ Aura of Majesty, Change Shape, Natural Magic, Tongues

Offense
Speed 30' (6 squares); Fly 50' (Average)
Melee Two claws +11 (1d6+5 plus venom)
Space 5'; Reach 5'
BAB +6; Grp +5
Attack Options Energy Drain, Venom
Special Actions Energy Drain
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds, potion of feral might, potion of natural insight

Post-Combat
Treasure: Combat gear, plus any equipment or disguise currently used

Other
Abilities Str 10 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 26
Apprentice Skills (+5+ability modifier) Acrobatics, Athletics, Initiative, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (The Planes), Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival
Journeyman Skills (+5+twice ability modifier) Bluff, Diplomacy, Grapple
Mastered Skills (+5+twice ability modifier) None

Feats
Weapon Finesse: A succubus may use her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier for attack rolls when wielding weapons with the Finesse property. She also gains a +2 bonus on damage rolls with these weapons. (9 pts)
Ability Focus (Energy Drain): A succubus increases the DC of her Energy Drain ability by 2.
Improved Initiative: A succubus has a +6 bonus to Initiative checks. (9 pts)
Weapon Proficiency (Claws): A succubus gains a +3 competence bonus on attack and damage rolls with her claws. In addition, her claws have the Finesse property. (9 pts)

Abilities
Aura of Majesty (Su): A succubus adds her Hero Value or her Charisma modifier to her saving throws, whichever is lower.

Change Shape (Su): A succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium Humanoid as a full-round action. When in the guise of another creature, she loses all preternatural abilities gained by being a succubus, but gains any preternatural abilities that her new form carries. She retains her spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary features gained by being a succubus, and does not gain those types of abilities from her new form.

Energy Drain (Su): A succubus drains energy from creatures it kisses. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. Once grappling an opponent, a succubus can kiss her opponent by making a Grapple check against her target's Grapple Defense: if she wins the check, she kisses her opponent. A kissed creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Con modifier + 2 Ability Focus; DC 17 for a typical succubus) or take 1d2 Hero Value damage. A succubus who successfully damages an opponent's Hero Value in this way gains a +1 bonus to her Hero Value for 24 hours, to a maximum of double her normal Hero Value.

The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Cha modifier +2 Ability Focus; DC 23 for a typical succubus) to negate the effect of the suggestion.

Flight (Pr): A succubus' leathery wings allow her to fly at 50' at an Average maneuverability. A succubus can hide or reveal her wings as a swift action: when her wings are hidden she cannot fly, but she may find blending in to be easier.

Natural Armor (Pr): A succubus' Natural Armor bonus is equal to her succubus Hit Dice (but not Hit Dice gained from classes, templates, template classes, or temporary effects).

Natural Magic (Sp): 8 daily charges. One charge -- charm monster (DC 22), detect thoughts (DC 20); two charges -- suggestion; three charges -- ethereal jaunt (self plus up to 50 pounds of objects only), teleport (self plus up to 50 pounds of objects only). Caster level equal to Hero Value or minimum level needed to cast spell, whichever is higher. A succubus receives one Natural Magic charge per three class levels, minimum one, and also gains an additional charge per succubus Hit Die (but not Hit Dice gained from classes, templates, template classes, or temporary effects). The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Skills: A succubus is trained in the Quick, Smart, and Strong monstrous skill sets and in the Diplomat skill set. She also receives a +8 racial bonus to Awareness.

Spell Resistance (Su): A succubus' spell resistance is equal to 10 plus her Charisma modifier.

Telepathy (Su): A succubus has telepathic contact with any creature that possesses a language within 100'. A creature unwilling to communicate or attempting to hide from the succubus' telepathy must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Wis modifier; DC 15 for a typical succubus) to sever or prevent the contact. A failed save against this ability immediately alerts the succubus, as does a successful save to sever an ongoing connection after initial telepathic contact has been made.

Tongues (Su): A succubus is always considered to be under the effects of a tongues spell.

Venom (Pr): A succubus may coat her natural attacks in a thin, translucent poison for one round as a swift action. Creatures damaged by her natural attacks when they are envenomed must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Con modifier; 15 for a typical succubus) or become fatigued. A creature that is already fatigued that is damaged by a succubus' envenomed natural attacks must make a second Fortitude save (versus the same DC) or fall unconscious for 1d3 rounds. Creatures resistant to poison may apply their resistances to this ability; creatures immune to poison are immune to this ability.

Racial Progression
  • +2 Charisma
  • Medium size: As Medium creatures, succubi gain no special benefits or take penalties according to size.
  • Demon: Succubi are Outsiders. Outside of the Abyss, succubi have the Extraplanar subtype. Banishment effects return them to the Abyss.
  • Speed: A succubus' base land speed is 30 feet.
  • Darkvision: out to 60'.
  • Natural Armor: Succubi receive a +2 racial bonus to their Natural Armor due to their demon hide.
  • Energy Resistance: Due to their exposure to the roiling energies that course through the Abyss, succubi have Resist Electricity 1.
  • Natural Attacks: Succubi have sharp claws they can use to defend themselves when necessary. Succubi have two claws that deal 1d4 damage each. Succubi use their claws as their primary natural attack.
  • Natural Magic: A succubus has a small pool of reserve magical energy. A succubus has one charge per three class levels, minimum one. A charge may be spent to cast one of the following spells as a spell-like ability, with a caster level equal to the succubus' Hero Value or minimum level needed to cast spell, whichever is higher:
    • detect thoughts
  • Automatic Languages: Abyssal. Bonus Languages: Any.
  • Favored Class: Bard and luckthief. Succubi substitute 1/2 their class level plus their Hero Value for their class level when determining the strength of [Progressing] features in the bard class if they have at least three bard levels. Succubi also substitute 1/2 their class level plus their Hero Value for their class level when determining the strength of [Progressing] features in the luckthief class if they have at least three luckthief levels.

Racial Class Progression
LevelHit DiceBABFortRefWillSpecialStat Increases
11d8+1+2+2+2Sharp Senses, Shielded Mind-
22d8+2+3+3+3Improved Resistances, Demonhide+2 Dex
32d8+2+3+3+3Improved Natural Magic, Telepathy 30'+2 Cha
43d8+3+3+3+3Improved Claws, Venom+2 Cha
54d8+4+4+4+4Tongues, Telepathy 100', Flight+2 Wis
64d8+4+4+4+4Spell Resistance+2 Cha
75d8+5+4+4+4Aura of Majesty+2 Dex
86d8+6/+1+5+5+5Change Shape, Energy Drain+2 Cha

HD: d8. Succubi only gain Hit Dice (and increase related abilities, like Base Attack Bonus, saving throws, and Hero Value) at the levels indicated on the table.

Prowess: 6 per level.

Skills: A succubus is trained in four skill sets of her choosing. Unlike monstrous succubi, a player character succubi uses non-monstrous skill sets.

Proficiencies: A succubus is proficient with simple weapons, with one weapon group of her choosing, and with light armor.

Sharp Senses (Ex): A succubus adds a racial bonus to her Awareness checks equal to her racial class levels.

Shielded Mind (Su): A succubus adds one-third of her racial class levels (rounded down) to saves against mind-affecting effects.

Improved Resistances (Ex): Starting at second level, a succubus adds one-third of her racial class levels (rounded down) to her electricity resistance. She also gains resist 1 to acid, cold, and fire, and gains immunity to poison.

Demonhide (Pr): Starting at second level, a succubus adds one-half her racial class levels (rounded down) to her Natural Armor bonus.

Improved Natural Magic: Starting at third level, a succubus gains natural magic charges at an improved rate. She adds a number of charges to her natural magic pool equal to her her racial class level minus two. She also gains new spell-like abilities usable with that feature, as described in the table below:
Succubus LevelNew Spell-Like Abilities
3charm person (1 charge)
4-
5suggestion (2 charges)
6charm monster (1 charge)
7ethereal jaunt* (3 charges)
8teleport* (3 charges)

*self plus up to 50 pounds of objects only.


Telepathy (Su): Starting at third level, a succubus gains the ability to make telepathic contact with any creature that possesses a language within 30'. A creature unwilling to communicate or attempting to hide from the succubus' telepathy must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Wis modifier) to sever or prevent the contact. A failed save against this ability immediately alerts the succubus, as does a successful save to sever an ongoing connection after initial telepathic contact has been made. The range of this telepathy increases to 100' at fifth level.

Improved Claws: At fourth level, a succubus' claws improve their damage die one step.

Venom (Pr): Starting at fourth level, a succubus may coat her natural attacks in a thin, translucent poison for one round as a swift action. Creatures damaged by her natural attacks when they are envenomed must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Con modifier) or become fatigued. A creature that is already fatigued that is damaged by a succubus' envenomed natural attacks must make a second Fortitude save (versus the same DC) or fall unconscious for 1d3 rounds. Creatures resistant to poison may apply their resistances to this ability; creatures immune to poison are immune to this ability.

Flight (Pr): At fifth level, a succubus gains the ability to sprout wings. A succubus' leathery wings allow her to fly at 50' at an Average maneuverability. A succubus can hide or reveal her wings as a swift action: when her wings are hidden she cannot fly, but she may find blending in to be easier.

Tongues (Su): At fifth level and beyond, a succubus is always considered to be under the effects of a tongues spell.

Spell Resistance: At sixth level, a succubus gains Spell Resistance equal to 10 plus her Charisma modifier.

Aura of Majesty (Su): Starting at seventh level, a succubus adds her Hero Value or her Charisma modifier to her saving throws, whichever is lower.

Change Shape (Su): Starting at eighth level, a succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium Humanoid as a full-round action. When in the guise of another creature, she loses all preternatural abilities gained by being a succubus, but gains any preternatural abilities that her new form carries. She retains her spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary features gained by being a succubus, and does not gain those types of abilities from her new form.

Energy Drain (Su): Starting at eighth level, a succubus gains the ability to drain energy from creatures she kisses. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. Once grappling an opponent, a succubus can kiss her opponent by making a Grapple check against her target's Grapple Defense: if she wins the check, she kisses her opponent. A kissed creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 succubus HD + Con modifier + 2 Ability Focus; DC 17 for a typical succubus) or take 1d2 Hero Value damage. A succubus who successfully damages an opponent's Hero Value in this way gains a +1 bonus to her Hero Value for 24 hours, to a maximum of double her normal Hero Value.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby Morty » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:32 pm

Hm, so Energy Drain reduces Hero Value now? An interesting change and easier to keep track of than negative levels, I think. Also, does the damage to Hero Value work like ability damage in terms of duration and healing?
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby Fax » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:03 pm

Yeah. Effects of Hero Value dropping to less than zero include temporary loss of all class-related features and prowess invested in feats.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby NekoIncardine » Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:30 am

As I've stated on IRC analysis, and this may be just me, this progression ends up feeling rather Tier-4 - an 8th-level Beguiler or d20r Wizard with the right school out-enchants, a Rogue of almost any level outdoes claw-and-venom tactics (and the levels spent in Succubus Racial could better go to Rogue for playing the kinds of tactics that would optimize claw-and-venom) - and sure, the resistances and AC bonus are nice, they don't extend what the Succubus can do sufficiently to justify going beyond around 3rd level (for the resistances) for a defensive-type class.

The exact traits that make this creature a nasty opponent - namely, a decently wide group of action options - end up being outplayed with it as a PC, as-is, since all of these actions are better optimizable elsewhere. It might be best to simply leave it for Core (since, as you've stated, the real purpose is to provide an example for how level adjustment replacement works), but in future expansions, extending the racial class to allow it to choose which of the areas it currently touches on (tanking via resistance, charm-type enchantments, claw-and-venom sneakiness, flight-based tactics) to focus in might make it more viable for serious play.

This perhaps hints at a larger issue - monster classes as a whole in 3.5 build down one route, so if the monster doesn't specialize, other monsters or even non-monster classes can outspec it sufficiently in all areas as to make it feel weak for a PC to use. Some of the most effective LA-requiring race options in 3.5 had only a couple of options that happened to majorly synergize with a class to let that class do its thing in a way it couldn't before. If the d20r philosophy has one overarching lesson, it's that some specialization is good.

A thorough go-over of this and working of it for enough different monsters could easily fill an entire set of books - so, related to the wider issue, I'd like to suggest we limit our work in the general field of monster classes to around five examples that haven't already been revised as LA-0 Races.

That said? Hero Value damage as the method for energy drain is brilliant.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby Fax » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:20 am

NekoIncardine wrote:As I've stated on IRC analysis, and this may be just me, this progression ends up feeling rather Tier-4 - an 8th-level Beguiler or d20r Wizard with the right school out-enchants, a Rogue of almost any level outdoes claw-and-venom tactics (and the levels spent in Succubus Racial could better go to Rogue for playing the kinds of tactics that would optimize claw-and-venom) - and sure, the resistances and AC bonus are nice, they don't extend what the Succubus can do sufficiently to justify going beyond around 3rd level (for the resistances) for a defensive-type class.
One doesn't have to go through the whole class, just as far as you like. You stop getting features, of course, but you can just take the base succubus race and run with it.

NekoIncardine wrote:The exact traits that make this creature a nasty opponent - namely, a decently wide group of action options - end up being outplayed with it as a PC, as-is, since all of these actions are better optimizable elsewhere. It might be best to simply leave it for Core (since, as you've stated, the real purpose is to provide an example for how level adjustment replacement works), but in future expansions, extending the racial class to allow it to choose which of the areas it currently touches on (tanking via resistance, charm-type enchantments, claw-and-venom sneakiness, flight-based tactics) to focus in might make it more viable for serious play.
The racial class is supposed to build the monster into the final version presented in the above statblock. In all but skills, it does so exactly. I'm still up in the air about the two HD-less levels, so I may end up bumping the main succubus to 8HD to make the racial progression easier. As far as what a succubus is supposed to do? It's a subtle intrigue opponent that plots and schemes. She's smart enough to know when to GTFO and has the means to do so (via ethereal jaunt and teleport), and also can be a formidable opponent against an unsuspecting or helpless target (which can be wrought via charm person/monster, high Charisma and training in social skills, or through her Venom ability).

NekoIncardine wrote:That said? Hero Value damage as the method for energy drain is brilliant.
I just need to figure out if I'm happy with the Glorified Commoner punishment for dropping to negatives or not. I think it fits, but I'm still sort of up in the air.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby NekoIncardine » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:01 pm

Looking closer at the new version of the Succubus, I'm thinking that three things are needed to make it a decent option for character building in a reasonable mix of environs:

1) Bump the monster to 8 HD and make the playable variant be 8 with-HD levels; in general, HD-less levels just sorta suck and weaken a race immensely.
2) Introduce a set of Racial Feats that center around heightening powers.
3) Introduce a set of Racial Flaws and Traits (read: Subfeats) that focus on removing or reshuffling powers.

I'll be sliding some of my ideas into edits on this post, to keep the whole race in one thread for now, along with random observations.

OBSERVED: Natural Armor increases by 2 if racial HD are bumped to 8, as-written. PC Demonhide/Natural Armor may need a tweak accordingly.
OBSERVED: As-written, the new Succubus can't do even the most basic shapeshifting to hide their non-human features. While shapeshifting to ANY form is definitely fitting for 8th level, the ability to shift between their natural demon form and ONE humanoid form that is essentially their natural form minus the obvious demonic features should probably be a 1st-level or base-racial ability.
IDEA: At 4th level, they gain a lesser version of Change Shape, loosely equivalent to Alter Self (i.e. no ability swap but still gets the Disguise bonus?)

Succubus Racial Feats

Enchanting Voice

Your magical power can channel through your voice to influence others.

Prerequisites: Succubus, Improved Natural Magic class power

Benefit: You gain new spell-like abilities to use with your racial Natural Magic, as follows:
Succubus LevelAdditional Spell-like abilities
4Hypnotism (1 charge)
5Glibness (1 charge)
6Shout (1 charge)


You gain one additional Natural Magic charge per day.

Will-Draining Kiss

Your kiss is capable of subverting the will of the recipient, channeling your natural magic to control them.

Prerequisites: Succubus, Improved Natural Magic

Benefit: You can cast certain Natural Magic spells on people by kissing them. If the target is not willing to be kissed, you must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. Once grappling an opponent, you can kiss your opponent by making a Grapple check against her target's Grapple Defense, kissing them on a win. A kissed creature is affected as if you had cast the spell normally, except that the Caster Level and Save DC are both raised by 5.

In addition, at 8th level, for two charges, you can spend three Natural Magic charges to cast dominate person as a spell-like ability. This does not benefit from the increased caster level or save DC, and can only be cast via a kiss.

Only the following spells may be cast via this feat, and then only if you can cast it as Natural Magic: charm person, charm monster, dominate person, hypnotism, suggestion. (LIST TO BE EXPANDED IF OTHER FEATS EXTENDING THE ARRAY OF NATURAL MAGIC ARE WRITTEN.)

You gain one additional Natural Magic charge per day.

Favored Courseload

Your training in a form of Material-plane spellcasting takes advantage of your natural talents to broaden your horizons.

Prerequisites: Succubus, Wizard (or other class that uses the Wizard spell list or a subset thereof), knowing at least one spell by a class (besides Succubus) that you can also cast as Natural Magic.

Benefit: For each spell that you learn that you can also cast as Natural Magic, you may learn an additional spell of the same level as if it were a spell from one of your schools.

You gain one additional Natural Magic charge per day

Self-Repairing Skin

Your species' already tough skin and organs regenerate partially against injuries nearly instantly, reducing heavy wounds significantly and making light wounds deal nothing more than pain.

Prerequisites: Succubus Level 5

Benefit: You gain Fast Healing 1, limited to healing your Hero Value of HP per damaging blow. This does not apply against damage dealt by Cold Iron weaponry.

You gain one additional Natural Magic charge per day.

Mastered Flight

You have learned how to fly better than most of your kind.

Prerequisites: Succubus, fly speed

Benefit: Your fly speed increases by 10', and your maneuverability improves by one grade (typically, average to good).

You gain one additional Natural Magic charge per day.

Wibble (Joke-ish feat)

You are talented at being Too Cute To Kill.

Prerequisites: Succubus, CHA 18

Benefit: You gain a +10 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, or otherwise related checks to convince any sentient creature not to kill you (and, preferably, your allies). This bonus requires visual contact with the subject, and is reduced to +5 against Abberations.

You gain one additional Natural Magic charge per day.

Drawback: You take an inherent -5 bonus to Intimidate checks.

Succubus Racial Traits

Broadened Resistances
Your races' much-vaunted resistance to electricity doesn't follow you as strongly, but the elements in general are less effective on you.

Benefit: Your Improved Resistances at 2nd level also include resist electricity 1. In addition, all resistances granted by Improved Resistances go up to 2 at 6th level, and you gain immunity to disease at 6th level.

Drawback: You do not gain the benefits of your Energy Resistance racial power (that is, you attain resist electricity 1 only at 2nd level, and 2 at 6th).

Empathic
Rather than reading other's thoughts through telepathic contact, you passively read people's emotional states.

Benefit: You can discern any creature's mood and desires to exceptional detail at a glance. You gain an inherent +5 to Sense Motive checks, and a +2 to all Charisma-based skills. This cannot be resisted by a creature via nonmagical means. At fifth level, these bonuses double.

Drawback: You do not gain Telepathy.

Unvenomed
Your claws do not produce your species' sleep-inducing venom; however, they do just plain hurt more.

Benefit: Your claws improve their damage die two steps when taking Succubus at 4th level, instead of one.

Drawback: You do not gain the benefit of the Venom ability when taking Succubus at 4th level.

False Shift
Your shifts, while complete in appearance, do not grant you other race's preternatural talents.

Benefit: You keep all Succubus preternatural abilities regardless of the shape you take with Change Shape.

Drawback: You do not gain the preternatural abilities of forms you take with Change shape.

Succubus Racial Flaws

Unshielded Mind

Your will is significantly weaker than your race's norm.

Benefit: You gain one Succubus Racial Feat.

Drawback: You do not gain the benefits of Shielded Mind.

Special: You must have one level in the Succubus Racial Progression to take this Flaw.

Dull claws

Your normally razor-sharp claws... Aren't.

Benefit: You gain one Succubus Racial Feat upon becoming a 4th level Succubus.

Drawback: Your claws lower their damage die by one step, and you don't gain the benefits of Improved Claws at 4th level.

Clipped

You do not gain your race's wings.

Benefit: You gain TWO Succubus Racial Feats upon becoming a 5th level Succubus.

Drawback: You do not gain Flight at 5th level.

Nonresistant

Your race's knack for ignoring spells does not apply to you.

Benefit: You gain one Succubus Racial Feat upon becoming a 6th level succubus.

Drawback: You do not gain Spell Resistance at 6th level.

Allergic to the Ethereal Plane

Exactly what the name implies, pretty much.

Benefit: You gain one Succubus Racial Feat and one Bonus Feat upon becoming an 8th level Succubus.

Drawback: You do not gain the ability to cast Ethereal Jaunt as a spell-like ability at 8th level, and Ethereal-borne effects that would affect you are more powerful - you do not gain any resistances or damage reduction against such effects, and Save DCs increase by 4 against such effects.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby DragoonWraith » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:01 pm

Your Ability bonuses seem extreme for a player race. Ability bonuses are relatively weak for "class features" (i.e. taking the place of levels), but it's kind of insane that Megaera has a +13 Craft (Random Anything) check or whatever (I totally pulled that number out of nowhere; you get my point). It's not overpowered, but it's just out of keeping with what's expected for player characters. I mean, Megaera's a Wizard - a Wis-dump class if there ever was one - and she has higher Wis than Ali - a Monk//Swordsage, a Wis-dependent combination.

The other comment I have is that perma-flight at 5 seems somewhat early; not without precedent in 3.5, of course, but worth commenting on. More important is Teleport at 8th - a level before a Wizard gets it, and that's arguably earlier than it should be available - and more importantly Ethereal Jaunt at 7th. That's a 7th level spell, Neko. As in, Wizard 13. That's a little ridiculous...
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby NekoIncardine » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:09 am

First, that's Fax's writeup of the new Succubus, not mine. Please blame the correct person. :P (Mine was much more insane now I think it, which is one reason for this changeover.)

The +13 Craft is due to her using the D20r skill mechanic (which tends to much higher numbers, especially for INT-based classes), where Craft and Profession are auto-Trained for PCs.

For the writeup that was used at Faxgame (this will change next week to this model), check [d20r=Succubus_%2810-level_version)]The ten-level version(s)[/d20r].

Perma-flight at the earliest that I know of is available at 4th level to Avariel, the flying elves of Forgotten Realms, so 5th, while out there, is reasonable (particularly compared to the design that Meg is based off of, which had it as a racial basic - yeah, that was NOT a good move x_x;)

Teleport and Ethereal Jaunt are rather massive, I agree - they're signature things that the 3.5 Succubus does and did, and they did so at relatively low levels, too. That doesn't mean they need to stand here, though replacement abilities would need to be devised to fill the gap in, that suit the Succubus' general theme.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby DragoonWraith » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:12 am

I see neither Teleport nor Ethereal Jaunt as signature Succubus abilities. At-will Teleport or the greater variety is pretty much on every major Outsider there is, really. It's also something that makes sense for monsters, not for players. Ethereal Jaunt I don't see as a major facet of anything, really, other than possibly they're sneakiness. Succubi are known for their Mind-Affecting abilities (particularly, seduction), and I don't really see much else as a "major" part of being a succubus, other than general demon-ness.
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Re: [Monster, Racial Progression] Succubus v2.0

Postby NekoIncardine » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:30 pm

Hrm...

PROPOSAL TO THE FAX: While I don't agree with dropping Teleport (let's face it, stereotypical Succubi are distaff Sir Robins when faced with a fight that's over their heads), I DO think Ethereal Jaunt should be dropped in favor of another enchant or something. Another sneakiness booster or two of a less extreme nature may be better-suited for d20r use.

Or maybe... *Edits flaw ideas*
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