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Succubus

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Succubus

Postby oslecamo » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:03 pm

Succubus

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HD:d8
LevelBabFortRefWillFeature
1+ 0+0+2+2Body of temptation, Corrupter initiate, +2 Cha
2+ 1+0+3+3Demon, Gifted, Change Shape, +1 Cha
3+ 2+1+3+3Lesser Corruptor, Deadly seduction +1 Cha
4+ 3+1+4+4Wings, Abyss skin, +1 Cha
5+ 3+1+4+4Corruptor, Temptation Incarnate, +1 Cha
6+ 4+2+5+5Kiss, +1 Cha
7+ 5+2+5+5Greater Corruptor, +1 Cha


Skills:8+int modifier per level, Class skills are Bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, knowledge(any), concentration, search, spot, listen, sense motive, use rope, profession(any), disguise.

Proficiencies:simple weapons and her own natural weapons.

Features:

Body of temptation: The succubbus loses all other racial bonuses and gains outsider traits. She's a medium outsider with base speed 30 feet and two claws as natural attacks, each dealing 1d6+Str modifier damage.

She also gains a bonus to natural armor equal to her Cha modifier.

Corrupter initiate:
Use detect good, detect thoughts, charm person as SLAs twice per day per HD. DC=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier. If she multiclasses for an arcane/divince class she can count her succubus levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and geting new spell slots. So for example, a succubus 3 who took 1 level of sorceror could choose to have CL 4, get 3 2nd level spell slots, 1 1st level spell slot, 1 2nd level spell known and 1 0th level spell known. She wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a sorceror 3 however. She would get the familiar ability, but succubus levels wouldn't count for it.

If the succubus multiclasses into cleric, she may use Cha as her main Casting stat instead of Wis, but she can't take any domains if she does so.


Ability increase:
The succubus gains +2 Cha at first level and +1 every other level, for a total of +8 Cha at 7th level.

Demon:
gain resistance to electrecity and a bonus on saves against poison equal to her HD, and resistance to fire, acid and cold equal to half her HD. Plus telepathy 40 feet plus 10 feet for each extra HD from here. Also she gains the evil and chaotic subtypes and her attacks with natural and manufactured weapons count as chaotic and evil for bypassing DR.

Gifted:
Can use tongues on herself as a SLA 1/day for each HD it has. Also gains a bonus to listen and spot checks equal to her HD.

Change Shape:An succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid 1/day for each HD she has. This works as the standard SRD ability.

Lesser corruptor:Use sugestion as SLAs once per day per HD. DC=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.

Deadly seduction:
If the succubus sucessfully feints an oponent in combat, that oponent takes a penalty to AC equal to the succubbus Cha modifier untill the end of the next succubus turn.

Wings:
develops wings allowing her to fly at a speed of 50 feet with average maneuverability.

Abyss skin: gains DR/cold iron or good equal to half her HD and SR equal to 11+HD.

Corruptor: Use charm monster as a SLA once per day per HD. DC=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.

Temptation Incarnate: The succubbus benefits from a permanent sanctuary effect as the spell, with save DC 10+1/2+Cha mod, except that creatures make must make will saves every round they try to attack the succubus and if the succubus attacks a creature the sanctuary effect is only lost towards that creature. The succubus can force an attacked oponent to make Will saves for this ability again by performing and suceeding on a new feint check.


Kiss:
A succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The succubus’s kiss or embrace bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier Will save to negate the effect of the suggestion. The DC for removing the negative level is the same, except that it demands a fortitude save.

For every two negative levels inflicted on a single sentient creature by kiss the succubus gains +1 to an ability score of her choice other than charisma for 1 hour. The succubus cannot gain a bonus to any of her ability scores trough this ability bigger than her HD.

Greater corruptor:The succubus can now use ethereal jaunt and teleport 1/day as SLAs for each 4HD it has. A succubus with 12 HD or more can use greater teleport SLA instead of the teleport SLA.

In adition, the succubus mind-affecting SLAs and spells can now affect oponents immune to mind-affecting, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves. If they were flat-footed by deadly seduction, they gain no special bonus at all for having immunity instead.


Comments:
Like the mind flayer, a favorite of the community.

Again I focus on the SLAs. The succubus is more mobile than the Mind Flayer and gets some nice defensive abilities to boot, but in return doesn't have any kind of area control, or the ability to get bonus from "eating" her victims.

Removed the summon vrock ability since it's kinda unbalanced and abilities that only have 30% chance of working aren't that much fun anyway. In return she keeps her great skills to back up her mind control stuff. Also a total of +8 Cha.
oslecamo
 
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Re: Succubus

Postby NineThePuma » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:55 am

Hi, I'm your resident balance person, thought I'd poke my head in. I'm from the continuation of the project on GitP, and would like to raise balance concerns with you over the class.
oslecamo wrote:Succubus

-snip-

HD:d8
LevelBabFortRefWillFeature
1+ 0+0+2+2Body of temptation, Corrupter initiate, +2 Cha
2+ 1+0+3+3Demon, Gifted, Change Shape, +1 Cha
3+ 2+1+3+3Lesser Corruptor, Deadly seduction +1 Cha
4+ 3+1+4+4Wings, Abyss skin, +1 Cha
5+ 3+1+4+4Corruptor, Temptation Incarnate, +1 Cha
6+ 4+2+5+5Kiss, +1 Cha
7+ 5+2+5+5Greater Corruptor, +1 Cha

+8 Cha over 7 levels is the FIRST warning sign in my head, though you do earn points for having a working table and using Castlevania art.

Skills:8+int modifier per level, Class skills are Bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, knowledge(any), concentration, search, spot, listen, sense motive, use rope, profession(any), disguise.
I would suggest reorganizing the list into alphabetical order and using the normal layout (Skill Points in a separate entry).

Proefeciencies:simple weapons and her own natural weapons.
I suggest organizing this into the standard layout as well, also you misspelled Proficiencies.

Features:
Body of temptation: The succubbus loses all other racial bonuses and gains outsider traits. She's an outsider with base speed 30 feets and two claws as natural attacks, each dealing 1d6+Str modifier damage.

She also gains a bonus to natural armor equal to her Cha modifier.

Wouldn't a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier make more sense, fluff wise? Also, you have a confusion in the base speed (30 feets?). What size is she?

Corrupter initiate: Use detect good, detect thoughts, charm person as SLAs twice per day per HD. DC=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier. If she multiclasses for an arcane/divince class she can count her succubus levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and geting new spell slots. So for example, a succubus 3 who took 1 level of sorceror could choose to have CL 4, get 3 2nd level spell slots, 1 1st level spell slot, 1 2nd level spell known and 1 0th level spell known. She wouldn't get the spell knowns and spell slots of a sorceror 3 however. She would get the familiar ability, but succubus levels wouldn't count for it.

If the succubus multiclasses into cleric, she may use Cha as her main Casting stat instead of Wis, but she can't take any domains if she does so.
The mutli-classing into a spell casting class is wonky. While I understand the reasoning, and the desire to have this class not be totally undesirable to casters, it is very wonky and needs some touches.

On the matter of the SLAs, isn't Charm Person 6 times per day at level 3 sorta... I dunno, excessive?

Ability increase:The succubus gains +2 Cha at first level and +1 every other level, for a total of +8 Cha at 7th level.
Commented on this already.

Demon:gain resistance to electrecity and a bonus on saves against poison equal to her HD, and resistance to fire, acid and cold equal to half her HD. Plus telepathy 40 feets plus 10 feets for each extra HD from here. Also she gains the evil and chaotic subtypes and her attacks with natural and manufactured weapons count as chaotic and evil for bypassing DR.
More usage of the term 'feets' and reading over it you have a number of typos. Bonus to saves against poison equal to her hit dice is reasonable, but Acid and Cold equal to half? That's almost never going to be really useful, and you'd probably just rely on spells at low levels.

Gifted:Can use tongues on herself as a SLA 1/day for each HD it has. Also gains a bonus to listen and spot checks equal to her HD.
Tongues lasts 10 minutes a level. Why would you EVER need to cast it more than once per day?

Change Shape:An succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid 1/day for each HD it has.
* The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form.
* The creature loses the natural weapons and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
* The creature gains the natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
* The creature retains all other special attacks and qualities of its original form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.
* The creature retains the ability scores of its original form.
* Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
* The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
* The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
* Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and viceversa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.
Huge copy pasta could probably simply refer you to the section of the rules its referenced from.

Lesser corruptor:Use sugestion as SLAs once per day per HD. DC=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.
Suggestion is a 3rd level spell being gained 2 levels earlier than the sorcerer. Also, once per day per hit die is a LOT of suggestions.

Deadly seduction:If the succubus sucessfully feints an oponent in combat, that oponent takes a penalty to AC equal to the succubbus Cha modifier untill the end of the next succubus turn.
Rampant spelling errors aside, at level 3, this is like a DC 22 sense motive check or take -6 to AC for a full round.

Wings:develops wings allowing her to fly at a speed of 50 feets with average maneuverability.
Isn't level 4 really early for flight?

Abyss skin: gains DR/cold iron or good equal to half her HD and SR equal to 11+HD.


Corruptor: Use charm monster as a SLA once per day per HD. DC=10+1/2HD+Cha modifier.
On top of a prodigious amount of Charm Persons? Wouldn't this have been better suited as an 'upgrade' of the prior effect?

Temptation Incarnate: The succubbus benefits from a permanent sanctuary effect as the spell, with save DC 10+1/2+Cha mod, except that creatures make must make will saves every round they try to attack the succubus and if the succubus attacks a creature the sanctuary effect is only lost towards that creature. The succubus can force an attacked oponent to make Will saves for this ability again by performing and suceeding on a new feint check.
DC 19 will save or "you can't attack me." =\ Also, with this you can basically walk into a giant room of people, curse them out, get them to rush you, and pick them off one at a time. =\

Kiss:A succubus drains energy from a mortal it lures into some act of passion, or by simply planting a kiss on the victim. If the target is not willing to be kissed, the succubus must start a grapple, which provokes an attack of opportunity. The succubus’s kiss or embrace bestows one negative level. The kiss also has the effect of a suggestion spell, asking the victim to accept another kiss from the succubus. The victim must succeed on a DC 10+1/2 HD+Cha modifier Will save to negate the effect of the suggestion. The DC for removing the negative level is the same, except that it demands a fortitude save.

For every two negative levels inflicted on a single sentient creature by kiss the succubus gains +1 to an ability score of her choice other than charisma for 1 hour. The succubus cannot gain a bonus to any of her ability scores trough this ability bigger than her HD.
Only an hour? That seems... rough, actually. Unless you're taking down mobs en masse, solo, with only this ability, that's going to take forever.

Greater corruptor:The succubus can now use ethereal jaunt and teleport 1/day as SLAs for each 4HD it has. A succubus with 12 HD or more can use greater teleport SLA instead of the teleport SLA.


In adition, the succubus mind-affecting SLAs and spells can now affect oponents immune to mind-affecting, but they gain a +5 bonus on their saves. If they were flat-footed by deadly seduction, they gain no special bonus at all for having immunity instead.[/spoiler]And the final abilities to round it out. The SLAs are a bit less crazy at this point, (well, Ethreal Jaunt is coming a full SIX LEVELS EARLY.) but what's really bad is the "We now can affect your mind!" stuff. That's just obscene. You're going to seduce something that's Mindless?


Looking forward to your response. =D
NineThePuma
 
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Re: Succubus

Postby oslecamo » Mon May 09, 2011 11:07 am

NineThePuma wrote:Hi, I'm your resident balance person, thought I'd poke my head in. I'm from the continuation of the project on GitP, and would like to raise balance concerns with you over the class.

Hi there. Sorry for not replying to this earlier but real life keeps me busy and in the free time I get I usually hang out at brilliantgameologists nowadays. Dunno if you'll notice this but better late than never I guess.

NineThePuma wrote: I would suggest reorganizing the list into alphabetical order and using the normal layout (Skill Points in a separate entry).


NineThePuma wrote:
+8 Cha over 7 levels is the FIRST warning sign in my head, though you do earn points for having a working table and using Castlevania art.

They're suposed to be charismatic. And it makes charisma-based classes more atractive, since usually Cha is a dump stat.

Proefeciencies:simple weapons and her own natural weapons.
I suggest organizing this into the standard layout as well, also you misspelled Proficiencies.

I'll correct actual gramar errors, but honestly I have no time to take care of minor layout details like that.

NineThePuma wrote:Wouldn't a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier make more sense, fluff wise? Also, you have a confusion in the base speed (30 feets?). What size is she?

Depends on what fluff you're using. As demons, succubus aren't exactly as frail as squishy humanoids, and I don't recall them having force-fields. Good point on the size tough, will add that they're medium.

Also those damned "feets" keep pursuing me! Demon work I assure you! (ok, ok, will take care of it)

NineThePuma wrote:The mutli-classing into a spell casting class is wonky. While I understand the reasoning, and the desire to have this class not be totally undesirable to casters, it is very wonky and needs some touches.

By all means, sugest some "touches". I've been thinking on how to implement a less wonky way since this project started and I've yet to find a solution that produces a better result while allowing you to reach higher level spells .

NineThePuma wrote:On the matter of the SLAs, isn't Charm Person 6 times per day at level 3 sorta... I dunno, excessive?

No. A sorceror could probably do so as well. And it's a somewhat limited spell.

NineThePuma wrote:More usage of the term 'feets' and reading over it you have a number of typos. Bonus to saves against poison equal to her hit dice is reasonable, but Acid and Cold equal to half? That's almost never going to be really useful, and you'd probably just rely on spells at low levels.


The original succubus also doesn't have that much resistance against acid and cold. Resistance equal to half HD may not fully stop anything CR apropriate, but it'll still make cold/acid attacks hurt less.


NineThePuma wrote:
Tongues lasts 10 minutes a level. Why would you EVER need to cast it more than once per day?

In case it gets dispelled? So you can apply it in your allies/charmed minions?


NineThePuma wrote: Huge copy pasta could probably simply refer you to the section of the rules its referenced from.

I blame the forum's lack of double spoilers. But ok I'll take out the copy pasta here.


NineThePuma wrote: Suggestion is a 3rd level spell being gained 2 levels earlier than the sorcerer. Also, once per day per hit die is a LOT of suggestions.

Yes, you're geting it earlier than the sorceror and you're geting a lot of uses because you have virtually no other combat trick besides charm person. Wich only works against humanoids.

NineThePuma wrote:
Rampant spelling errors aside, at level 3, this is like a DC 22 sense motive check or take -6 to AC for a full round.

I can't understand if you consider that a bad or good thing. Remember that feinting against non-humanoids has a lot of penalties and you're spending your whole turn (plus needing to get in melee range before) for a 1 round debuff.

NineThePuma wrote: Isn't level 4 really early for flight?

On the limit, but wizards got levitate back in lv3 and there's that Oriental Adventures race that can get flight right away whitout LA with the errata. Since it's the only ability the succubus gains that level (and average maneuverability doesn't allow for hovering), I believe it's fine.


NineThePuma wrote: On top of a prodigious amount of Charm Persons? Wouldn't this have been better suited as an 'upgrade' of the prior effect?

A good point, but I wanted her to keep the charm persons so she can safely charm townspeople and whatnot for showing off while saving the charm monsters for the actual dangerous ecounters, since you should be fighting few dangerous humanoids by now.


NineThePuma wrote: DC 19 will save or "you can't attack me." =\ Also, with this you can basically walk into a giant room of people, curse them out, get them to rush you, and pick them off one at a time. =\

See, now you're thinking like a succubus! Divide and conquer your enemies! Take your sweet time with one at a time while the battle rages against you! That was precisely the kind of feel I was trying to catch.:twisted:

Wizards meanwhile got stinking cloud, wich actually stops your oponents from attacking anybody at all, while Deadly Seduction only stops them from attacking you.


NineThePuma wrote: Only an hour? That seems... rough, actually. Unless you're taking down mobs en masse, solo, with only this ability, that's going to take forever.

That's for what you got all the previous abilities to charm bunches of farmers to follow you and then drain them when needed.


NineThePuma wrote:
And the final abilities to round it out. The SLAs are a bit less crazy at this point, (well, Ethreal Jaunt is coming a full SIX LEVELS EARLY.) but what's really bad is the "We now can affect your mind!" stuff. That's just obscene. You're going to seduce something that's Mindless?


Well let's be honest. As you level up pretty much everything starts to be immune to mind affecting or can become so easily. In order for the main succubus abilities to stay relevant, she needs to at least have a shot of them affecting the enemy. As a seducing specialist, yes, the succubus can slip her sweet poison trough your mindblank and lichdoom to make you dance to her will. Because it's her main stick. She deserves to remain able to seduce people when you reach higher levels.

As for mindless golems, you're not seducing them. You're awakening them with your chaotic demonic powers, then seducing them! :twisted:
oslecamo
 
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